Posts by Max Divergent

101

What do you mean?! I ALWAYS go to the beach after service and wear long pants and button up shirts while I play a game in the sand with my family! Sometimes I wear button up long sleeve shirts too!

by Crisis of Conscience in

the wts likes to imply how jws should dress in and outside of the hall.

you always want to set an example.. so i couldn't help but share this beauty in the january 15th, 2013, study edition of the watchtower.

i always go to the beach like this!

Max Divergent

Get a grip.

The OP image was Adealdie, Australia and the March 2013 picture could be southern hemisphere too. Skin cancer rates in Australia and New Zealand (probably South Africa too) are 2-4 times times higher than US, Canada and UK (depending on the source) as a result of ozone depleation and outdoor lifestyle factors. As a result many people do cover up on the beach including in garments like shown in the March 2013 image which are made of a fabric is designed to block ultra violet rays but be acceptably comfortable in the water. The amount of skin coverage in the OP image is unsuprising on beaches or anywhere outdooors in Australia, although the style of clothing might be uncommon on the beach.

http://www.cancer.org.au/preventing-cancer/sun-protection/

Showing these images is a pretty responsible action by the WTS - even if they also feed into the body modesty ideas they promote.

http://www.cancer.org.au/preventing-cancer/sun-protection/sun-protection-products/swimwear.html

Use the above link to buy your own WT approved beachwear.

11

AUSTRALIA: Migration Scam Being Operated by Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society

by jwleaks in

jw leaks has updated their "human rights" page with hundreds of pages of documents released, all relating to 19 separate court cases involving jehovah's witnesses conducted through the european court of human rights and also the australian refugee tribunal.. .

the 9 cases that were run through the australian refugee tribunal by the jehovah's witnesses all came from lebanon.. .

one former member of jehovah's witnesses, who advised on a number of refugee and migration cases for jehovah's witnesses and the watchtower bible and tract society of australia, and provided the documents and background information (yet to be published) to jw leaks, stated:.

Max Divergent

One former member of Jehovah's Witnesses ... provided the documents and background information (yet to be published) to JW Leaks...

So, the tantalising propect of inside information from a former member who is, by definition, out-of-date, out-of-the-loop and probably has an axe to grind... why not wait till you post these 'provided' documents before making a big claim like the JWs ' clearly broke the law'.

JWs are as entitled as anyone to apply for a visa and if they get some pastoral assistance with the process, that is not a crime. Helping with forms and the English language etc is not giving migration advice.

The posted documents show authorities making decisions on the basis of facts in front of them based on a range of materials in accord with the law. So what?

they were also helping Australian circuit overseers and missionaries get into a number of Asian countries with the use of dummy corporations and businesses set up by Jehovah's Witnesses for this very purpose.

They are a corporaiton. What else does a corporation do but apply for its officials to go overseas in the name of a corporaiton?

This is half baked.

11

Choose one: confident Belief based on Faith.....or.........?

by Terry in

which, if either, is best for you: being a believer who accepts on faith.

being a skeptic who doesn't trust belief and prefers to rely on fact?.

no cop outs allowed such as: both.. .

Max Divergent

This faith and belief thing seems all random and idiosyncratic to me, based on the outcomes one can observe of ideologically driven politics, religion etc. Sometimes random things work out well: say if you win the lottery. Usually they work out badly.

Evidence-based approaches reduce random elements and systematicly approach attaining useful outcomes. Much better chance of things going right.

For me, given the choice, I go with the option that is most likley to provide the best possible results. That is evidence-based reasoning.

Max

93

Should pranksters be held responsible for results of their pranks?

by Satanus in

jw
friends

two djs, posing as the queen and prince, prank a nurse into divulging info on kate.

nurse is later found dead, apparently suicide.. -----------.

'jacintha saldanha, the receptionist who was duped by two australian djs who were pretending to be queen elizabeth and prince charles in order to get information on the duchess of cambridge's pregnancy, has been found dead.. the woman's body was found at an address close to king edward vii hospital in london, where the duchess was being treated, according to the u.k.'s daily mail.

Max Divergent

I agree with a lot of what Pajaha and others urging moderation said, but I have a different view. To say it's OK to undertake such 'pranks' means it is hard to penalise those who do the same thing for criminal motivaitons - how do you administer a law where 'oh, it was a prank' is a defence to stealing information for your own benefit (in this case noteriety and publicity)? If that's the case, let's all do it and make funny You Tubes of random people's medical histories etc. And use the info for identity theft at the same time.

...plenty of worse pranks played on TV and radio, plenty far more likely to cause
someone to commit suicide or suffer a heart attack.

Maybe this is what it took for a review of those practices. Any activity with such dire consequences can't be good.

...the hospital have done a very good job of deflecting blame from themselves on to the DJs.

Quite right. The DJs, their management, the surviving nurse and hospital management should be accountable for their actions in accord with the law.

The DJs are not responsibile for the death of the nurse. But that are responsible for their own actions. The radio and hospital managements are also responsible for their actions and omissions - such as nurses apparently not knowing who they may talk to about Her Royal Highnesses health and the conditions under which they may do so. Her Majesty does not make calls like that, I would expect, but somehow two nurses thought they were speaking the the Queen. Maybe they wanted to believe they did speak to the Queen; it'd be a highlight for their career if it happened. To have that excitement crushed publicly without them knowing, so far as we know, in advance of the broardcast was cruel.

If the law in New South Wales is as has been reported, then their acts are worthy of being considered by a criminal court in accord with the laws governing trials which include considering the health of the accused.

All involved, at the radio station and the hospital, might be hoping for a healthy baby to be born with no further complications for their own sakes.

93

Should pranksters be held responsible for results of their pranks?

by Satanus in

jw
friends

two djs, posing as the queen and prince, prank a nurse into divulging info on kate.

nurse is later found dead, apparently suicide.. -----------.

'jacintha saldanha, the receptionist who was duped by two australian djs who were pretending to be queen elizabeth and prince charles in order to get information on the duchess of cambridge's pregnancy, has been found dead.. the woman's body was found at an address close to king edward vii hospital in london, where the duchess was being treated, according to the u.k.'s daily mail.

Max Divergent

Cut through the crap... someone impersonated the head-of-state for the purpose of gaining privilaged information and then broardcast that information on the radio for commercial gain. In this case it was info about a newly expectant first time mother.

Did the late nurse react rationally? No. Is it to be expected someone who might feel they publicly let down the head-of-state might react in an extreme way? Yes.

I think it was fraud and a jury should decide if it was criminal.

43

Calling all Aussies and Kiwis

by SkyGreen in

jw
friends

if u don't mind saying if u r kiwi or aussie, and basic info like m/f, how long in, how long out, or if fading like me.. im female i live in aussie but born in nz fading the last few months.

know it ain't the truth, but am married with little kids and closest family and friends all in.

trying the slow fade and hoping my husband will do the same... being very gentle with him... .

Max Divergent

Currently in SA, stopped attending meetings more than 10 years ago.

339

Patterson on the line: Watchtower claims that paying cash bond would cause immediate irreparable harm and hardship

by cedars in

a new article for those who are interested.... http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/patterson-on-the-line-watchtower-claims-that-paying-cash-bond-would-cause-immediate-irreparable-harm-and-hardship.

.

cedars.

Max Divergent

Season you words with salt. Draw the brothers toward a right conclusion. Do not browbeat the brothers. Offer commendation, offer suggestions, then end with commendation and encouragement. Always protect the brother's dignity when offering correction.

These were things I was taught when I was being trained to take the lead in the congregation. They would be well applied here.

Some have the academic training, professional experience, wide reading or general acumen to identify flaws in the author's words including issues of accuracy. But they have failed to engage the author to draw him toward the professional standard of analysis and writing they critique him against.

These ones might have enjoyed the support and guidance of professors, supervisors and peers to attain their high skills. They have the privilege of choosing whether to engage those beginning their post-JW life with the patience, kindness and dignity they might have liked to receive when they were starting off. Or calling them liars and Watchtower stooges and challenging them to some kind of face off.

The record shows choices made.

Max

Of the just say I haven’t been around long enough or have posted too much class.

125

Do You Think Bag Searching Violates Your Rights?

by minimus in

jw
friends

in view of the transit bombings, do you feel that police should be able to search you or your bags at anytime?

Max Divergent

Approval of slavery is a good example of why a Bill of Rights can't be relied upon to protect our lives and freedoms.

More thought than looking up the 4th, 13th, 9th, 1st, 5th or whichever Amendments, or turning up on a Tuesday every four years, is needed to keep us free either from an enemy who: 1) hates the Western system, and 2) understands us better than we understand them; OR from a rampent government that's quickly getting frighteningly efficient.

Cheers, Max - who hasn't the slightest idea of how to make the subway a less attractive target, but is sure the answer isn't found in the constitution!

69

NO LONGER SATISFIED AS I WAS, WITH JWD FORUM

by outoftheorg in

no this is not another { i am leaving this forum }.

it is just that i no longer am so hungry for the many posts as i once was.

i could not wait to get home and sign on to read all the posts from newbies and the heavy hitters.

Max Divergent

While I accept the point made originally by E/man essentially to the effect that posting and participating is a community service in an area where there's a need and few who can help... at the same time I can accept that 'moving on' can be an appropriate response to the experience of getting a real life too.

I'm ignoring a crying hungry baby to write this... and over the years (since 1998 on H2O) I've preferred to do this over various other personal pursuits/obligations - many more hours than my meagre 400 posts at JWD would suggest or warrant.

Amongst all the positives, and maybe even a tiny contribution of some sort to the community, I've also experienced the personal negative end of the spectrum - feelings of obsessiveness, compulsion, or a chain of connection to my JW past, knowledge that my personal affairs aren't all in order, but I read & write here instead of working on that stuff.... I think if someone wants to put some distance (at least for a while) between themselves and JW-ism (X or otherwise), then good for them... maybe that's part of growing apart from our pasts.

If they're generous enough to tell us how they're feeling and what they intend, well that tells us something about the process of leaving the JW's with a DB community as a support. Not many of us have done that before.

After mulling on it for a while, and some minor epiphany (sp?) or other, I finished the weekly shopping this morning knowing that I'd like to thank the board for the goodness and freedom and liberty its given me. I'm sure I've paid back none of that debt, but for some reason (that I can't quite figure and may not be either accepted or understood anyhow) I also felt a need to say {it's time for Max to sign off} and do Max, Anne and little Max stuff for a while.... like feed him for a start!!

Lotsa, Max.

125

Do You Think Bag Searching Violates Your Rights?

by minimus in

jw
friends

in view of the transit bombings, do you feel that police should be able to search you or your bags at anytime?

Max Divergent

Max, I have to tell you right now....I enjoyed your comment up until your use of the "N" word!

Fair enough... an ugly, hateful word with the most awful connotations ... but it got and has retained that history despite the Bill of Rights.

My point is a simple one - a Bill of Rights or any constitutional guarentee isn't often the best or only way to think about how to protect the most fundamental of human rights - the right to life (as in 'alive' - not bombed) in freedom and safety – because the most abhorrent abuses still happen, like those brought to mind with that racist word.

Maybe going on the subway with a backpack is either: 1) consent to a 'random' search, or 2) 'probable cause' enough for a quick look in the bag for plastique, an Uzi or other terror weapons if Congress says it is.

Max - of the eternal vigilance is better than slavery to rules class